In this episode, Dr. Carla Marie Manly joins us again to discuss the release of her most recent book, Date Smart. We discuss how society and culture have shifted due to rapid changes in technology and the COVID pandemic. How have dating and our love lives caught up to it? What are the things that we need to be aware of when dating today?

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[00:00:00] Clément: [00:00:00] Hello there and welcome to another episode of unleashed love. My name is Clément Yeung and I’m your host. And today I’m going to speak with Dr. Carla Marie Manley for the second time on our show, she’s come back to talk about date smart, which is the new book she’s got coming. And from what I’ve gathered, it is incredible.

There’s so much in that book that I think you, as a listener of this show would benefit from reading. So definitely check that out. We’re going to put the links in the bio. And in this episode we really dive into, I think, the details of some of the core concepts in our book, especially communication.

Especially setting expectations. We talk about online dating. We talk about compromise and it’s so valuable to discuss these things in detail, which is why I love long form podcasting so much. This whole show is a long form podcast at its heart. So I’m really happy that we were [00:01:00] able to. Get Dr.

Carla Marie Manley back on the show. She’s such an amazing guest. If you haven’t listened to the first episode with her, check that out too. This one, in my opinion was a little better because we were able to find our flow faster and we were able to get a lot of, I would say, less popular, but equally, if not more, Powerful concepts and topics of discussion really discussed.

So without further ado, I’m going to jump right into this. If you like it, please leave us a rating or review on the apple podcast platform. Because every single one we get helps us reach more people take care. I hope to see on the next one. So what have you been up to anyway, since we last spoke and

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:01:45] my life is just.

It’s always so busy. I just have just pulled here, pulled there, but am the book release for date smart was switched from. July 6th to July 20th, because like [00:02:00] everything else, they, that printing company is, are running short on paper because of the lumber supply issues. And so it got you. Yeah. Yeah. So that actually affected me.

I know during the pandemic, there were books that were put off, months and months. So mine got delayed like two weeks that PR is going great. My PR team is. I hope I possibly will be on like good morning America and some really big shows. So that would be really fascinating. If not a problem.

I’m still really excited about what I’m doing. Almost done with my youngest script for my fourth book and was working so hard on getting that finished. Cause you need finished manuscript and then the pub dates. A year and a half away. So I have one last chapter to do on that, but amazing how it’s like the grownup version of date.

Smart. Not that date smart is for young , but it’s more. It’s richer in research, richer and content. And so that’s this next book, which is about loving him perfectly. And so it has some [00:03:00] attachment issue. I just, I absolutely love it.

Clément: [00:03:03] Okay. Okay. Let me ask you this then. Because I’m really excited to talk about this book because it’s really in my wheelhouse when it comes to, this is a lot of the things that we talk about dating.

Top X dating, dating related issues. So what, but what made you write a book about that? Because it seems like it’s so disconnected from joy, from fear, which is your,

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:03:21] are we podcasting already? We are.

Okay. So let me just go into that. So what made me write it? I right. The old adage write about what you know. And so when I wrote joy from fear, it was about what I know. It was about how my life was really dictated by fear and how as I came out of that and then wanted to research it. I want to help other people not live in fear.

So that was and did research and, did my doctoral dissertation on fear. So that was foremost for me, joy from fear [00:04:00] will always be probably my baby, because it was such a foundational book. So joy from fear to me is. For every person who wants to do self work, whether you’re been married for 50 years or you’re 18, or you’re 20, you know what, or you’re 80.

It doesn’t matter. Date smart is what the universe sent to me. I was actually working on another book and I was getting client after client with dating issues, everything from my 20 somethings 30 something, 40 something, 50 somethings, really having difficult. With dating issues because people aren’t behaving in respectful way.

On an, a lot of dating platforms. People don’t know what their wounds are and so they’re carrying their wounds. And so I connect with my publisher and I said, I have to write this book. This is the book that’s coming to me. I’ll do a, a proposal for you. I’ll get you the research on it. But if you don’t want it, I’m [00:05:00] taking it somewhere somewhere else.

And they’re really great team. And yes, no, we totally see what it is and why it’s important. And because I knew in my heart it was important, but I also knew in the sense that they would understand how important it was and they did. So I

Clément: [00:05:18] started, sorry. Do you think that it’s more important today and why?

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:05:25] That’s such a good question. Okay. I think it’s more important today. Here’s what. I think our families are more disconnected than ever before. So we grow up in families where we don’t have the nuclear family that we once had. We don’t have the community to pick up the slack that families once had. Kids are raising parents.

Parents are trying to raise kids, there’s parentless households. There’s and that’s why we learn. We learn how to be in relationships from [00:06:00] childhood. And so if we’re not, if we have parents and yeah, I’m not, there’s no blame here at all. How life is. So if you have parents really focused on earning income, rather than being with their kids, the kids, aren’t going to get the ideal raising, right?

You have a single mom or single dad. Who’s just doing whatever they can to make ends meet. They’re not going to be showing trialed, healthy, loving, inner, personal behaviors. So I believe that is what has made dating more complex that we’re not getting the foundation that we used to. I also think another piece of it is, and this is where, and I write about this in date smart, where people get they play games and relationships and people have always played, can relate

Clément: [00:06:47] to that from my side.

But I have experienced that a lot.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:06:51] Yeah. And I think where that comes from is more technology based, hundred years ago, if people [00:07:00] lived in the same town, you’d have to behave at least somewhat appropriately because mom, dad grandma, everybody would know somebody and you would be held accountable right now.

People aren’t being held accountable. If they don’t text you back or call you back, they can hide behind a computer. And that allows a lot of people to behave in very thoughtless, disrespectful ways. So I think that’s another piece. I think another piece is that as we’ve moved toward lessons traditional, and this is very good in some ways that we are less traditional and more open-minded, but some people confuse being more open-minded and more liberal.

With being more disrespectful. And I think he can be very liberal and very open-minded and still be very respectful. And so I, I’m very open-minded yet. I tend to be extremely Rick respectful. I’ll hop into somebody else’s shoes and say, God, I’m, I’m so sorry. I did that. I [00:08:00] didn’t mean to hurt you.

I apologize. And a lot of people aren’t in the habit of doing that. They’ll just delete you or, counsel you, whatever it is because you’re. Doing things their way. So I think that what’s happened with dating is that people aren’t bringing their best selves to the table sometimes because they don’t know who their self is.

Clément: [00:08:21] That’s a really great point. I think he explained something that I’ve not really heard verbalized before. And th w not necessarily any one of those points, but just the way that you structured that whole argument will. I think have the power to shift people’s opinions and paradigms about what’s happening today.

Like exactly why I asked you why you think it’s important today. Because I personally think, yeah, it is a different situation in a playing field that we’re on when I was growing up. And I’m sure when you were growing up, we didn’t have these social platforms and [00:09:00] these online dating apps. And like you said, we had to meet people in our area and we had to get to know them and we were held socially accountable and that’s a very effective system.

It’s a very effective system because it makes sure that the community is healthy. Whereas now there, the community has fragmented so much and we go to these apps and you look, I’ll be the first to. I’ll be the first to say a COVID was a really difficult time for everybody. And just that human connection was lost in ways that we never would have imagined.

So just being able to have these apps was a heaven sent, it was a blessing coming out of COVID. I have no idea what’s going to happen now because it seems to have integrate. Or at least not the app itself, but just the actual behavior of looking online, swiping objectifying, because that is essentially what’s happening.

It’s not it’s like going to a marketplace and you’re looking at vegetables, [00:10:00] you’d pick in which one you liked the best. You haven’t got to taste them yet. You haven’t got to talk to them yet and find out what that vegetables really as a vegetable. Yeah, there’s it, there’s a lot of questions that I have about where we’re going with all of this and what it’s gonna do to the community and what it’s going to do to each of our individual values and how we, our views of the world change in terms of like interpersonal relationships and.

Just being good people. Like what, what is stopping us from being a bad, not a bad person, but like you said, just not putting the effort in to make someone else feel welcome or respected or appreciated, even if things don’t work out. Yeah.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:10:44] I agree with you so much. And I love your metaphor about the marketplace because we are in a very disposable oriented society.

Now we are, and we think that everything is disposable from [00:11:00] our plates and our dishes too, or, our dish where do the people in our lives. And I believe that no one is disposable it’s as a clinical psychologist. I guess I. I should believe that anyway, but as a human being, I believe that no person is disposable and that every person deserves to be treated with respect.

And so I agree with you a dating app that is asking us to swipe, swipe left based on generally our first impression of someone, just that picture, just whatever the numbers are, whatever the data shows. And I think that does set us up for not going. More deeply into getting to know the human being behind the photograph.

So I do think that’s an element. And I think that one of the things I really love about date smart, because it’s a fun book. It feels one of the reviews says, the best friend in a book, and that’s what I love about the energy in the [00:12:00] writing. I worked really hard not to be clinical. I worked really hard.

Talk to you as if you’re sitting on the couch with me, I’m not in my clinical couch, but at home with me and we’re just having a chat. And the reason I like that plumber is because I think people right now need best friends, not a best friend who says they’re a best friend, but isn’t a best friend, but.

Someone who feels like they really get you and listen to you. And what dates smart does from that paradigm is brings you into the first step of dating, which is know who you are, get slow it down so that when you’re heading out into the dating world, you know what you have to offer. You know what you’re wanting from another person.

And if you don’t do that, then you create a lot of confusion for yourself and for other people. So for example, somebody is just looking for a hookup. No problem. Just simply say that I’m looking for a hookup, [00:13:00] nothing long-term one night only. You’re being straightforward, right? Where things get very murky is when somebody just so that they can get hookups as, oh, I’m thinking about long-term when they’re really not.

And then they ghost someone and have, so I think that’s one piece is really knowing who you are and going out with true intentions, being a genuine human being. That’s it?

Clément: [00:13:26] It’s difficult to, I think, enforce that. Isn’t it? That’s really the issue. It’s difficult to get a platform like a digital app where the repercussions of lying about your intentions.

Are going to actually give you some kind of pain afterwards, right? So that you don’t do it again. I think there are, if we’re really going to go into the technical aspect of these apps, I think there are apps where people can vote you down and eventually if you keep acting in certain ways, you will be kicked off the app.

[00:14:00] So there, there are, I think artificial mechanisms that help people. Keep these communities a little bit more honest, but with the most popular one, for example, like Tinder. Yeah. There’s absolutely nothing stopping you from just going in, lying about who you are and not even lying about who you are in terms of the communication lying about who you are in terms of the photographs you’re using.

Which is a catfish that’s the whole phenomenon of being catfished is like you’re talking to someone that doesn’t even exist, but that’s besides the point, but getting back to what you were saying, How, so how do you talk to people that come to you and have these problems like, oh, I was speaking with someone and they weren’t honest with me and what’s the next step for someone like that?

Or is it really just a question of, we need to educate people on values and principles.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:14:48] I am absolutely with you. I think it’s that it’s both of them. The more people we educate about values and principles, that it’s not about you being a bad person or right or [00:15:00] wrong, it’s simply be who you are and be honest about that and let the others.

People, the people on the other side of that make a choice. So that’s really part of it is education of the self and education of others to say, get to notice these behaviors, get to notice them so that you’re not hanging around. Waiting for that type of person or putting up with that type of person, because generally people who are disingenuous are getting fueled by people who continue just like bullies, right?

Bullies get fueled because people stay connected and they get engaged with the bullying behaviors. But if people say, wait a second, We’re not tolerating this anymore. And there’s more clarity around that. Then we raise the bar and I’m all about raising the bar. And again, just simply saying, as long as what you want and you’re stating it, I don’t have a problem with it.

What I do have a problem is [00:16:00] helping people clean up their lives, who have been hurt so badly by people not speaking the truth.

Clément: [00:16:06] What do you think about there? Rehabilitation from something that’s been incredibly traumatic for them. Maybe they got close to someone over the course of months and then found out that they weren’t really the person they were talking to. Not in a cash pitch sense necessarily, but just in a, they were feeding them everything they wanted to hear.

And then while it didn’t turn out that’s actually who they are in real life. Is it something that. As simple as saying let’s set your expectations lower or is there anything else that they can do?

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:16:40] I am not a fan of setting one’s expectations, lower. I am a fan of actually really knowing your expectations and then being able to say, this is what I want.

This is who I am. I’m going to interview you. And if we approach dating, not [00:17:00] that it has to be as structured and as an interview as we would for a job, but I don’t see a problem with really having conversations with people about what’s your relationship history. If you’re into a hookup and just a one night hookup, this doesn’t really apply.

All you’re looking at is, Hey, does this person want to have sex with me? If so, yes. Whatever. And moving on, if you are somebody who wants something more substantial than that’s where the work is to slow it down. As much as you can, as much as you want to, and really engage with the heat with the other person to say, this is who I am.

I need to be really clear with you and find out what you want. So to answer your question, you will get people who will lie to you, who will, breadcrumb, you lead you along. And so the work is, if you get into one of those relationships, if you learn to really pay attention and slow it down, figure it out sooner rather than later.

So when you do [00:18:00] figure it out, no, don’t oh, sorry about that. Do not blame yourself. Do not shame yourself. Simply. Say, oh, these are the red flags I missed next time round. I’m going to pay more attention to them. If there isn’t anything you missed. And that’s the part about some of these people who are out there who are very charismatic, very good at manipulating.

So they will sometimes draw you in and there were no red flags and in situations like that, it’s really about. Never blaming yourself, looking at the other person and say I happened to end up with a master manipulator. I that’s not my problem. It just, this person’s very skilled at manipulating other people and doing your best to identify that now.

Interesting climber. I have noticed people who have been in relationships, some people might say if you are in a [00:19:00] relationship with somebody long enough, You’ll see that I’ve had people. I was just working with a woman who was in a 20 year marriage, who did not realize the depths of her husband’s depravity until year 19.

Because there are people who are so good at being manipulative, so good at lying. They, that they can keep anything hidden. In fact, I was listening to some something today where they were saying Ted Bundy was known as being a really charismatic human being and. A murderer. I think that it’s important to never blame yourself.

That’s one of the things I work with so much with people is that they end up blaming themselves for a relationship that’s gone awry, just working with another client who is in a ten-year relationship. Her first guy Evers, who she ended up marrying found out. He had all of these behind the scenes things going on.

She was naive. So [00:20:00] should she feel guilty for being naive and not knowing what substance abuse looked like and all of these machinations? So now it is her responsibility to put the pieces together, do herself work so that it doesn’t happen. But she is not the bad guy. And unfortunately, that’s what really happens.

A lot of people blame themselves when it’s nobody’s fault. But the person who lies it is 100% the responsibility of the disingenuous, manipulative lying individual. I even had one person tell me once. I wasn’t faithful to my girlfriend because this other person was always tracking me down and pulling me in.

It’s not the other person’s responsibility. It’s that person’s responsibility for not saying, get out of my life, leave me alone. I’m with someone. So we have [00:21:00] to really come back to that place of being personally accountable for what we do. It’s never anybody else’s fault. It’s E as far as infidelity and that sort of thing.

Clément: [00:21:11] You said something and I want to touch on that in a moment, but you said something earlier about expectations that I have to ask you about. This is a conversation I’m having with many people. I had it with someone that I was dating recently, and when we were initially talking she was actually in her defense, very clear, and she said, let’s keep our expectations.

And I thought, and I said to her, because I’m a hopeless romantic. And I said to her, I don’t believe in that. I don’t believe in keeping your expectations low because it’s somehow reduces the, it somehow reduces the quality of the connection. There’s something special for me personally, that lives behind hope that lives behind.

Some kind of elevated interest that lives [00:22:00] behind a real motivation to, to be the best version of yourself to make the effort. And I feel like expectations can be a driver somehow of that, but I know what she’s saying and I’m not, obviously I’m I’m aware of the, of what she’s trying to communicate.

So I. Do think that it’s important to find a balance, but in your opinion, when you said that, what did you actually mean? I’m really interested.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:22:25] I completely agree with you. I think that keeping our expectations low, I think it’s two things. If I have expectations in a relationship for someone to save me, to make my life perfect.

She treat me like Cinderella. That’s a ridiculous. Illusory expectation. Those kind of expectations need to be looked at and set over here because they’re not realistic. However, it sounds and I’d like you to push back at me on this. It sounds like [00:23:00] in that relationship you were saying, I would like to have a high quality relationship.

One where you can be emotionally connected and really bring our best selves forward. I think that we would never want to lower our expectations in that regard, because to me, especially for a long-term relationship or a committed relationship, again, I’m always putting one night stands aside, those just not another area altogether, but for somebody who’s interested in a truly committed related. The bar can’t be high enough. I’m sorry. And I actually don’t, I’m not sorry. I actually, I don’t think the bar can be high enough because I believe that, and I’ve probably mentioned it to you before, but my, one of my favorite quotes is rain, your Gran, your Maria real cave, 1904.

And this is from one of his letters for one human being to love enough. That is perhaps the most difficult of all our tasks, the ultimate, the last test improve [00:24:00] the work for which all other work is, but preparation. Only in this sense as the task of working at themselves to hammer to hearken night and day might young people use the love that has given them.

And he was talking directly to somebody who was young, but to me, that. Is what relationship is for us to bring our wounded imperfect selves forward, share those wounds with another human being who will value them and honor them. They use their wounds, bring them to me. I hold them and then we bring each other.

Up and up and the relationship in the most beautiful, most loving way to me, where else can we do that? We can do it with our friends, but even our bandwidth for that kind of work. And I do that in therapy with people, but it’s not a co-creation. Helping them. And that is one of the things in relationship.

If it’s a, truly intimate [00:25:00] relationship, we can make each other, just the finest versions, help each other, support each other and being the finest versions of ourselves. Isn’t that?


Clément: [00:25:09] a relationship is that the journey of a relationship, because you know what, I’m, you know what I’m getting frustrated with while you say this and the thinking of what just happened to me.

In what just happened to me in this terrible, tragic dating event that happened. And look, I am far from perfect. I think everybody’s far from perfect. We all have our own issues. We all have our own erroneous beliefs and yeah, it was very clear to me that there are people in the world that have a whole long list of.

Criteria that cannot be fallen short of, they have to be met in order for that person to be a valid partner. And if you are looking for the perfect person to begin [00:26:00] with, It’s there’s no reason to have a relationship in the sense that I think relationships are actually a way to come together and work on each other, work on yourselves, help each other, support each other.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to think that you’re going to find someone who. Is going to keep you happy all the time and you’re going to be, always in all of them and right. That’s a ridiculous, I’ve had a long-term relationship or two you’ve been you’re in a long-term relationship. We know what it’s like, it’s difficult.

It’s more than difficult sometimes. It’s you pull your hair out, but there’s some things so magical about actually overcoming each others. You could say. That they’re deep challenges, right? There are things that we carry with us everywhere we go. There’s something so powerful about helping each other grow.

And I got so frustrated when you were talking about that because not with you, but because of exactly [00:27:00] what we were saying was true. And it’s sad to know that you can have a connection with somebody, but the only thing stopping you from taking it to the next level is. That search for perfection, that perfectionism, that lives in someone that, that lie that there’s, it’s gotta be perfect to begin with.

It’s gotta be just right. It’s gotta be like just right note fallen short. Okay. Next one. Next one. Swipe left. You know what I mean?

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:27:29] I so agree with you. In fact, we were talking about my next book, which won’t be out for two years, but that’s what I focus on in that book is that particular.

Ideal that impossible, ideal of perfection, it doesn’t exist. And so let’s go back to your situation. And that book is all focused on that on dismantling that belief women in particular and men to a certain degree are raised to believe that Cinderella. They are [00:28:00] Cinderella. They will meet prince charming.

Their lives will come together and they will live happily ever after people do not. And we’re sold on that, but they don’t realize that the true fairy tale had nothing to do with that. The Grimm’s brothers took old tales, sanitize them, romanticized them, all Disney, took it to another level of infantilizing them and romanticizing them on top of that.

And what Cinderella was about. Was your feminine side, meeting your masculine side, you becoming whole, and you living happily ever after you Clem, all me, Carla, this is the journey for every person it’s accessible to every person. So here really responding to what you were saying about your last relationship.

And I love that we’re using that as fuel right now because. When we look at that relationship, just using it symbolically, right? [00:29:00] It’s a defense mechanism. Somebody who has a list of, let me check this box and you must meet. It’s important for us to know what we want. It is important for us to have a list of what we want.

For example, my list looks very much like this integrity. Honor fidelity truth, kindness, compassion. Hey, if you like to sail an adventure and you’re good at working with your hands, those are perfectly wonderful. Some financial stability, those kinds of things. My list never really went beyond that because I’m looking for care.

To her. I’m not looking for perfection. And even in that character, there’s got to be some room. Now of course, then income are deal breakers. That’s where we should insist almost on perfection in a very loose way. Would you also call

Clément: [00:29:55] those non-negotiables? Is that like

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:29:57] non-negotiables and those [00:30:00] to me are things like honesty, respect.

To me, those are non-negotiable because how can I have, if we look at what a friendship is, when we ideally want a friendship underneath every romantic relationship, we must have respect and honesty so we can have trust. So for someone, again, going back to your situation, somebody who comes in red flag was her saying, let’s keep our expectations.

What does that mean to you? That

Clément: [00:30:32] means for me it means I’m not ready to give, I’m not ready to give my all, that’s what it means.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:30:39] And it also would mean to me, there’s something wrong here. There is baggage. That’s not been addressed that this person is not really ready to use a relationship. To grow with someone in [00:31:00] a collaborative mutual way.

And we all have different ideas of what we want in a relationship. And for me, life’s too short to spend relationships in time with people who don’t want to be invested in a partnership. It’s just not, I have too much love and too much energy to give. And there are other people who say, Hey, life for me is like being in a carnival.

I want to experiment with as many tastes and sights and sounds as I can. Fine go on that path. But I do think using again, that relationship is as just assemble. It is about that person, really knowing what’s underneath that. What is causing you to say, I don’t want your best self and I’m not going to give you my best self.

Let’s keep our expectations down here. So I would be curious if that were, for example, a client, I’d be curious. Why are you dating right now? What’s your purpose? What’s your goal? Why are you dating? Do you need some healing time? Do you [00:32:00] need some self work time, but why are you dating? If you want to keep your expectations low?

Think about it like this Clem on if she were in. Me for a job. And she said, but I want to keep my expectations low. I would say you know what? This, I wouldn’t be a good employer because I like to work with people who have high expectations who really want to achieve. We can have lots of imperfection in that journey.

The imperfection can be in the journey and that’s why we get to grow our tolerance and our patients and our compassion and our self love and our other love.

Clément: [00:32:34] Oh, my God, this is an amazing conversation so far because we’re really hitting hard. Some of these less visible, less popular topics that are really essential to being able to have something special with someone.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:32:53] Yeah, I would be saying to you claim are so for you, one of your goals in relationship [00:33:00] for you to be clear about, I want someone, I Clem all, once someone who wants to have. Everything with me, who wants to be my best friend, who wants to be my partner, who wants to take it ever and ever deeper.

Somebody who wants that bar to keep going and not in a, we can raise the bar. In a negative way, but I remember, in high school I’d be, you do that, jump things over the bars, and I’d always want the bar to go a little higher and a little higher and a little higher to test myself, to make myself stronger and more flexible. And I like doing that with yoga. We want to keep going that’s to me that’s sounds like what you want in relationship. You want somebody who wants to evolve with you. And so going into relationships and being clear about that. And as long as you’re clear about that, you’re able to screen people.

And if somebody says, I’m not really into that. I just want somebody to go on vacations [00:34:00] with you might go, oh okay, I’m in that space right now. And we’ll do that for a month. But after that, and you co-create that agreement and you travel together and then you move on. But if you’re in a place where you’re like, I really want to do soul work with.

I really want to connect with you and really want to Polish because I look at this work as polishing our stones, the stones of who we are me grabbed this stone is from someone in Washington. Who found it on the beach and he as a hobby, cause he has lots of energy. He polishes them and that’s what I can you believe this was just a rock by the river and he polished it.

And then he let me pick one because that’s what he does with his excess energy. And that’s what. To think of as our soul work that we take this stone that we’re given this raw stone and it’s rough. And in relationship, we mindfully Polish it with another person and they look at all the imperfections.

It’s [00:35:00] not life would be so boring if we were perfect, we would, what would we do? What would we talk about everything? Exactly. So for me, Perfection is the antithesis of what makes us interesting. I like that piece is where we get to look at an imperfection in our relationship, check in with ourselves to see why that imperfection is bothering us, and then check in with the other person to see where we can take that because maybe what I perceived to be an imperfection in you.

It’s actually my opportunity to grow. And it could be the opposite. Maybe it’s something where you’re not a good communicator. And I say, Hey, Clem, all, could you not shut down on me? And so by me coming forward to you, then you get to work on that part of you that has been shutting down. And then I’ve learned to speak my truth.

You’ve [00:36:00] learned to come back to me. We have both polished our stones. I think it’s fabulous. So after I said that, now let’s go back to your question. What are some other things in data? So date smart. And you talk about some of the games and dating and how it’s, really not fair to the self or others to be disingenuous, to lie, to purposely deceive people.

We sometimes unintentionally get things wrong and again, that’s the imperfect. Clean it up. When you notice you’ve done something that you’re leading someone astray or not being your best self. So I talk about that. The other thing I talk about, and there are 33 mindset shifts in date smart, and I’ll read one of them.

I love this one it’s mindset shift. Number three, friendship is a skill and a way of being some people simply don’t know how to be good friends. Sometimes a person can learn how to be a great friend, but the key to change is that the person must really want to learn this important skill by showing up in life [00:37:00] strive, to learn the difference between a true friend and a person who wears a mask, a frame.

And the reason that is one of the, that is the third of the 33 mindset shifts, because I really believe what I said before that if we build our romantic relationships on a friendship that we then have, even if the relations. Doesn’t work out romantically. We’ve met someone who we’re really connected with, and if we don’t do that and we just get together and passion’s high and everything is wonderful and we don’t have a good friendship underneath.

We haven’t really learned enough about the person. And we may be with that person for a year, five years, 10 years, and go, oh my God, who is this person next to me? I don’t really like them very much. Or they’re after me for my money or they’re after me for this or. Whatever. And so I think if we pause to really build friendships and be a friend, that’s where we learn.

If somebody is a good fit, are [00:38:00] they able to be a good friend? And then of course you want the passion and the attraction there as well, but they’re not mutually exclusive. And then let me give you another one. Where’s a good one. There. It’s great that you said that

Clément: [00:38:13] by the way, because I really did recently cover Chemistry versus compatibility, which is really another way of saying those things that you just said, compatibility, being the friendship, chemistry, being the fire, the passion, and in, in my experience in my research, I learned that yes, you can have compatibility without the passion, but it’s very boring.

But if you have all the passion without the compatibility, it’s like a train wreck. So it’s like trying to figure out how to balance it a bit so that you’ve got. Connections on values, but you also have just an amazing an amazing time together

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:38:53] too. Absolutely. And I think that it’s funny that you say that because I think, in my history, some of the people.

[00:39:00] I was most passionate with. And you look and you say, but then they’d be drinking a glass. For me, somebody who drinks a whole lot is never a good fit and they’d be having a drink and they’d be like, oh, I only have one, one drink a day. And it would be, this big of a thing of whiskey or something with this much soda you’re going well, I don’t think this is going to be fit the passion’s great, but are we’re missing on some core values here and some core health issues.

So you’re absolutely right, because. Passion is a great starter. It is not sufficient for a long-term relationship because you need somebody who is, who gets. Who gets you on that playing field of values and date smart hits that heavily from the beginning, your values, your needs and you explore the other person.

What, where that compat and not that they have to be perfect. It’s not about perfect. It’s about, because for example, you can have slightly different values and have somebody teach you and you can teach them [00:40:00] because you have these differences, but you want to be enough alike that. Ramming heads, or you’re not in a relationship because you want a deep emotional connection.

And the other people has person has such significant attachment wounds. That the idea of being deeply emotionally connected is the last thing they want to do. So they’ll fight with you all the time. Because they don’t want to connect with you. So those are the kinds of the things that we need to look for.

Here’s here. This is mindset shift. Number 11, you’ll love this one. Our scars can be our greatest treasures, the very things we hide from others, or sometimes the very things that make us the most precious of lovable. The scars we strive so hard to conceal can be reminders of the wounds that we have worked so hard to understand it.

These healed or healing wounds and the resulting scars can be among our finest treasures. They needn’t be embarrassments for, they can signify how much we have learned how much we have loved and how far we have come. I love that one because so many people think [00:41:00] again, going back to the idea of perfection, think they need to be constantly happy or perfect or whatever in relationship, you don’t need to be anything, but you.

That is what you are best at being you and coming forward, taking off the masks, learning to do that, learning to show up and say, this is who I am. This is what I need. Who are you? What do you need? Okay. We have great chemistry, great compatibility, great pool. That’s great. In other cases you might go, wow, you’re gorgeous.

But we’re just so very different. You’re authoritarian and you’re misogynistic, so no, it’s not going to be a good fit. And so I think when we do that, really be conscious, mindful, intentional in our relationships, pull ourselves best selves forward, knowing we’re going to be imperfect.

Clément: [00:41:57] You reminded me of something that I [00:42:00] talked about recently, which is compromise. And I want to ask you, is there an easy way to know when to compromise and when to be yourself? Because I hear what you’re saying, be yourself. Yeah. Why? I think it’s a real mistake. If you’re not, you’re starting a whole train of unsustainable lies, but.

Where do we draw the line when it comes to compromise? Because some people can over compromise. Some people can compromise so much to the point where they’re giving and they’re not receiving any

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:42:32] very good question. So we’ll slow it down. I think that it’s always great to compromise unless it hurts your core.

I will be. So I will be very willing to compromise, but if you go into my core territory and asked me to compromise on dignity, respect, absolutely not. I will be adamant about that. And I think that’s [00:43:00] where people come into relationships believing that they shouldn’t change. We have this mantra. Let me be me.

You be. Excuse me, you have decades of life behind you. I have decades of life behind me to people who are not willing to compromise and shift. You’re going, gonna end up on your own islands. I like to talk about islands a lot in relationships. And so if people are coming together and they’re saying, here are my coordinates, here are your current needs and the rest we’re just going to have to compromise.

And let’s do it playfully. I get your core needs. I can honor those. I G I get yours and the rest is about both people. So in your example, what happens if one person is always compromising and the other person isn’t, that’s the work right there. If I’m compromising too much. And I notice that this person is not compromising.

My work is to say, you know what? This isn’t really balanced right [00:44:00] now. And research shows that balanced relationships, 40, 60, 60, 40 ending up close to 50 50, those were the healthiest. So then my work would be to come forward and say, you know what? It’s feeling 90 10, I’m doing 90%. You’re doing 10.

Here’s what I need from you. And it’s not about changing the other person, Claremont. This is a really important piece. We change every day. I wake up. I’m a different person. By the end of today, I’ll be a different person. Our conversation is making me a different person. So since we’re changing anyway, why not change consciously?

Why not use your relationship as a, so if you say. Carlos would you do this? And I say I’m not really comfortable doing with that. Could you tell me why you want me to do this? And if I’m in an open space and I’m curious, I actually might learn from what you’re asking me to do by you asking I’m [00:45:00] challenged to say, why is no coming up for me?

Is it because Klemow is asking me to do something that is harmful to my core, or is he asking me to do something that’s uncomfort. Because he’s asking me to grow. He’s asking me to open up more. That’s what was happening in your relationship? You were asking her to open up and she was saying, you’re not perfect enough.

And that was the excuse, the defense, her, I don’t know the person again. We’re just talking symbolically, but it’s you are saying, Hey, I want to go somewhere with you. I really want to connect and she’s going. Those are her wounds that are stopping her from being able to go into a place of discomfort of newness, maybe a place of vulnerability she’s never allowed herself to be.

And that’s a really important piece. That’s when I hit really heavy, not in date smart, but in my next book. [00:46:00] Why talk about when we have wounds from childhood, they will follow us into our adult relationships. They are pernicious, they are ever present until we faced them and deal with them. And one of the best ways we can face them and deal with them is in our romantic relationships with a conscious partner who is willing to work on our wounds with us instead of exacerbating them.

Clément: [00:46:24] You touched on a number of things. And when I was agreeing with you I was actually already thinking about my past relationship. I don’t know if that’s what you were talking about or whether you were talking about the recent experience I had with the date they’re different, but you really touched on something that just re thrust me back into this last relationship with my ex-girlfriend.

And just the whole, not being willing to recognize that it’s a call for personal growth. It’s not a, it’s not an invalidation when you ask somebody, listen, this is not [00:47:00] working for me. I think the work that you can do is this. Maybe you need to be more responsible and maybe you need to challenge the thoughts that you have.

The things that are causing you anxiety, because they’re going to keep closing these problems. They’re going to keep bringing things into our relationship that I can’t deal with. But instead of being attacked by that, you see it as a call to arms a call to maybe that’s not the wrong term, actually, you see it as a, as an opportunity to grow.

And so that just thrust me back into that whole last one and a half years of just let’s compromise you do this. I do that. No, because. You’re attacking me. No, because it hurts. No, because.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:47:37] You’ve got it. Exactly. And it is that piece where relationships, again, you would have to have a partner who’s using that consciously.

When you say I, Clem all feel hurt when you disrespect me and the other person says, gosh, okay, let me see what I can do. I’m acknowledging that I feel triggered right [00:48:00] now. I’m remembering my dad telling me things. Okay. I’m feeling triggered. Tell me more Klemow what could I do differently that would not hurt that part of you?

That is how we become conscious in is responding, staying curious, and not rejecting, not reacting, but moving toward the person. Yeah, big stuff. I think relationships are just the most fabulous opportunities for growing. And what’s interesting about the stone I showed you, this, if you have somebody who wants to remain a piece of coal, Or a gritty rock and they’re okay.

They’re uncomfortably, comfortably being a gritty rock, but you sound to me, we, that you want to be more polished. And so the idea then for that kind of person is to be able to show up in relationships and say, this is what I’m after. I’m after soul polishing, I’m after relationship polishing. And if the other person says, what the heck are you talking about?

And you’re trying to [00:49:00] change me. It’s now I’m just trying to find somebody who wants to evolve. It’s not about changing another person. It’s about evolving with another person.

Clément: [00:49:09] Absolutely. We could go on and on forever we can cover your whole book, but we should probably let people experience that for themselves.

When does it come out?

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:49:20] It is coming out July 20th. So not too far away. Oh my goodness. So yeah, not too far away at all. It’s already available on audio. The narrator of the audio book. I listened to her. She does a fabulous job. She sounds a bit like me. So that’s nice. And having somebody who is able to read the whole book is out for people is fabulous.

So yes. Date smart out out July 20.

Clément: [00:49:49] Nice. I’m really looking forward to that. I’m going to buy a couple of copies, actually. I’m going to I’m going to actually give them away to our audiences is just a way to get them in inspired and to get them [00:50:00] to go and check it out. It’s always a pleasure to have you on the show.

It’s really, I think it’s an evolution, and when I get to speak to you, I feel like the next time we speak, it’s going to be an even better conversation.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:50:09] It is because, it’s interesting, you’re talking about soul connection where across the globe from each other and. I can generally pick up when somebody wants to do soul work.

And so when, and I’m, I’ll be doing soul work for the rest of my life. And so I think it’s so lovely that your, the purpose of what you do is to help people do their soul work. Even though you phrase it, it’s, it comes in all different phrases, but unleash love what is unleash love, but to be doing our soul work.

We are unleashing that huge potential of love that sits right here, right in our hearts, in our souls. So thank you for the work you do.

Clément: [00:50:48] Yeah, it’s my pleasure. It’s amazing. I’m so blessed to be able to connect with people like yourself. And it’s just, I think it would be silly not to get you to come back on in the future.

So [00:51:00] when you’re going to publish your next book, we should get you to come back on again, in the meantime, how do people, if they didn’t listen to the last episode, how do people get in touch with you? If they want to connect? Okay.

Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:51:10] Dr. Carla So it’s D R C a R L a M a N L Y. Dr. Carla

That’s my website. And you can find me on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter, on LinkedIn. Same name, Dr. Carla man.

Clément: [00:51:28] Excellent. Thank you again so much. We might be seeing on TV students, if that goes well, hopefully it does fingers crossed and yeah, I think they’re doing a great job so far, excellent.

Thank you. And we’ll catch up with you again soon. Hopefully. Dr. Carla Marie Manly: [00:51:42] Thank you. Take good care.